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5:24 am
June 26, 2009
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marea
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What are the different types of double-glazed windows?
Who supplies double-glazed windows in Canberra?
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8:26 am
July 11, 2010
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Cewek
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I've sourced double glazed window and door units from two sources after pricing options for replacing and retrofitting aluminium sliding doors and windows in 2004/05. For double sash windows and sliding doors I finally chose a product called CertainTeed provided by Solace Creations (www.certainteed.com.au and Canberra Agents tel 6296 6994) which is a PVC frame with 35 year warranty. I've been very happy with the result, because PVC is strong and cheaper than either metal or wood. But, it's not to everyone's taste and the colours might be limited to a beige/white scheme. On the positive side, these look much better than my previous aluminium windows/doors, they have full 3 point security locking which has defeated burglary attempts and there's a noticeable difference in heat and cold as well as in sound insulation from that side of the house. I strongly suggest people visit the Master Builders Association in Lyneham to have a look at actual displays of double glazed units by Monaro – in fact people may not realise how useful it is to go to the MBA to see all the companies' products some of which are environmentally responsible – including double glazed units by companies such as Monaro which will make up to order wooden units.
For a fixed window upstairs, I found it cost effective to get a 'Magnetite' window done. http://www.magnetite.com.au/ Some five years ago they didn't really retrofit sliding aluminium windows, but I'm checking if that is now possible.
I'd like to hear from anyone who has actually used "Clear Comfort" successfully on sliding aluminium windows. I cannot get into their website at all and all others are unhelpful on this question. Anyone done this?
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11:32 pm
July 14, 2010
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marea
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Thanks for that very helpful information on doubleglazing. I also went to a very interesting presentation in May by Jeff Knowles at a Sustainability Network event.
He said that over 50% of windows in Canberra now are being doubleglazed, including through retrofitting, and that the cost has halved over the past eight years while quality has improved.
If I understood correctly, we should be looking for doubleglazing with the following ratio:
6mm external glass thickness/8mm air gap/4mm inside glass thickness
Apparently, low "e" argon fill and tinting add a significant performance value to the glass.
It's still very abstract to me and so I'll have to do more reading and go along to a few suppliers and have a look at the options. Thanks for the suggestion about the Master Builders Association showroom.
I gather from comments at that meeting that Moen Glass in Mitchell do a lot of doubleglazing jobs.
With regard to Clear Comfort, I've found it very effective on small and average sized windows but impractical for very large windows and glass sliding doors. I can't comment on aluminium windows. I've just checked out the Clear Comfort website at http://www.clearcomfort.com.au and found information on aluminium windows under the FAQs and the "Do it Yourself" tabs. Basically it seems that you lose a lot of heat in winter and gain a lot of heat in summer through the actual aluminium frame and so they suggest attaching a supplementary frame and sticking the Clear Comfort to that. Anyway, have a look at that information and see what you think. 
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9:03 pm
July 15, 2010
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Jeff
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G'day Marea and Cewek – a good discussion and I'd only add a few things from my perspective.
Firstly Solace Creations carry a variety of frames and if folks haven't looked @ uPVC as a framing option then that is a great place to start – Certain Teed is based in Melbourne and having been to the factory, I can comment that it was a well set up outfit. Most of their frames are sourced from China and colours are difficult at present. That said, I did go to the Home Sustainability show down in Melbourne last weekend and there was a crowd there using Kommerling profiles (www.artwindows.com.au) that have just released a coloured aluminium 'click-on-the-outside' piece that comes in any colour…..but the inside is still white/beige.
Speaking of factories, Marea, bear in mind that Moen ARE an excellent I.G.U. manufacturer both they don't sell to the public. You buy their products through glass companies like Solace or CountryStyle windows in Queanbeyan.
Cewek, like Marea I've tried to use Clear Comfort but I have aluminium everywhere and most of them are big – so they delaminated after the first summer. Itried their tip of using a double 'carriageway of tape but that didn't last either. I have seen it work well on smaller wooden windows where the frame and window is in good order or has been painted recently….and it is out of the way of kids and cats – both of which have destroyed jobs I have done for other people. I've also seen it take off older paint finishes…..So like Magnetite I think it IS a solution as long as there is enough advice around as to what problems it can be a solution for, and what problems it can't address.
Another place to visit is the HIA showroom in Fyshwick – they have certain companies there that are solving glazing issues as well. it was interesting down @ the Melbourne home show that the majority of people doing purpose built double glazing assemblies were using wood or uPVC – 'broken aluminium' (aluminium with a centre core of a non-conductive material) is not making it's presence felt yet in this region.
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1:03 am
July 20, 2010
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Alec
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We have just built strawbale, cobbed wall and poured earth home in Murrumbateman (we could not afford to do this in Canberra). The house has double glazing, but w/o argon gas. The extra cost for argon glass is perhaps a case of 'over engineering' for houses in the ACT (and our little part of NSW). The use argon in double glazing is common where I originally come from (NE of the USA) where we have long frigid winters…which is not the case here in the ACT!
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7:35 am
July 21, 2010
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Cewek
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well I think the upshot of much of this discussion is that we have lots of options for different kinds of windows, insulation problems and budgets? Until such time as people can afford to build their homes with the appropriate technologies (how I would love to do a strawbale house, but Australia is over regulated in some senses, particularly Canberra and to the detriment of the home builder/occupier in my view), and these don't always have to be costly btw, a lot of us are stuck with retrofitting. From my reading about glazing, what matters most is the air pocket you create between the two layers of glass. The different frame materials do, as Marea points out, have different conductive qualities eg., timber is better than aluminium. But, Australia being a major repository of bauxite with an active aluminium smelting industry we have aluminium fittings galore…If it helps anyone to know, I found good old 'youtube' a bonus for tips to retrofit some windows on the cheap eg., my laundry windows now have bubble wrap stuck on them with just a spray of water. I'd also note the concerns expressed about the limits of using 'clear comfort' type shrinkwrapping for trapping too much air inside houses and inhibiting free flow of clean air. Also, that some places in North America they shrink wrap the windows 'on the outside' only for the worst, cold months as a last resort. So if the heat issue takes precedence over aesthetics…worth considering too!
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12:22 am
May 17, 2011
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marea
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Cewek above mentioned using magnetite on fixed windows. Has anyone had experience retrofitting sliding doors and french doors with magnetite doubleglazing? Does it affect the functioning of the doors and what about durability?
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2:15 pm
May 21, 2011
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PeterC
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I have some small/medium sized windows I used the Clear Comfort product on 15 years ago or more and it is still fine. It does depend on having a suitable surface for the double sided tape to stick to. Porous stained wood does not work but it does work if the wood is varnished or painted in some way. It is very effective and very cheap. It was harder to get it to stick well on some very large windows where there was too much tension. A reversible solution is to make a 'picture frame', cover with clear comfort film and sit that inside the reveal of the window.
Where a window would need more frequent cleaning behind a sink I added a second pane of plain glass over the original with a gap set up with a wooden 12mm square spacer varnished and siliconed in. This DIY was also at least 15 years ago and working just fine.
The numbers I recall from a seminar were that the optimum gap is 12-15mm. Going down to 8mm or out to 24mm is only marginally worse. Less than 8mm got rapidly worse so 6mm was much worse than 8mm.
I also have high quality, expensive sliding doors and opening windows done by Schuster Windows (in Goulbourn). These are an excellent product with draft sealing that is superior to any other product we could find at the time.
All in all double glazing is thoroughly worthwhile. The entire north side and most of the south side of our house is glass yet our annual heating costs are $100 (the increase in gas bill for the two winter quarters).
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4:59 pm
May 21, 2011
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Alec
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marea said:
Cewek above mentioned using magnetite on fixed windows. Has anyone had experience retrofitting sliding doors and french doors with magnetite doubleglazing? Does it affect the functioning of the doors and what about durability?
Going strawbale in the ACT may not be as difficult as you think. Although we built a strawbale home last year in Murrumbateman (NSW), volunteers at our straw bale workshop, who live in Canberra, hired our builder (Viva Living Homes) build a SB extension to their all-too-typical brick house in Yarralumla. From what we understand, the encountered little dramas from council. We have double glazing (16mm), wood frames (blackbutt). The house retains its heat…main source is a woodburner.
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10:13 am
May 22, 2011
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Quetzal
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Alec, well I won't give up my dream of building that sustainable house now you've given me the encouragement. Thanks the reference the business.
Marea, now you've reminded me & I'm in the depths of a winter where I do not want to repeat the power bills I had last winter, I've booked a quote from Magnetite to look at my south facing large living room window (sliding aluminium frame). I would replace it with a double glazed unit, but that would mean losing the security grade flywire & it would be wasteful. I'll let you know how I go with that. They've sent out a brochure this time, so have become more professionalised since I last dealt with them. They also claim to be able to do sliding doors, I'll see what the quote looks like.
One of my work colleagues has just acquired a new apartment where she and her partner are installing retrofitted double glazing on sliding doors (haven't seen). I'll ask her which business she used & let you know.
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7:49 am
May 25, 2011
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PeterC
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In the absence of an expensive fix for large sliding doors, you can have a lightweight insulated board that sits over the space at night time and lifts out for the day. It can be a sheet of expanded polystyrene glued to a plywood sheet that can be stained/painted to suit the decor and a couple of handles fitted to make it easy to lift in and out. Obviously that only helps for winter night time and does not help for summer daytime insulation when you want to be able to see out. Also, it takes up space when not in use so you need somewhere convenient to put it.
A neat solution, again only useful when you don't want to see out, is the luxaflex, honeycomb blind that can neatly fit in the reveal of the door and traps a similar layer of still air like double glazing.
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9:17 am
May 25, 2011
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Viva Living Homes
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Alec showed me this forum and I thought you may like some contacts re double glazing.
We use timber double glazed windows from Kelly Cabinets 02 4572 1927 and he travels to ACT.
We haven't used these suppliers so can't vouch for them but they are cheaper more affordable:
Polar available from bunnings or can custom make – aluminium
http://www.polarwindows.com.au
Magnetite – PVC http://www.magnetite.com.au
PVC – http://www.Christoffel.com.au
Hope this helps, feel free to call if you have any questions 0450 480 460 Simone
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11:03 am
May 25, 2011
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marea
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Thanks everyone for your suggestions.
Quetzal, I've also booked the Magnetite people to come and give me a
quote next week and they have sent me the brochure in advance of our
appointment.
Peter, I already have pelmets and curtains with 100% block-out lining
and that makes a big difference at night in the rooms with large
windows and glass sliding doors. During the day, I manage them actively
to keep out cold in the winter and heat in the summer. However, I do find it unpleasant if I can't see out during the day and that's why I want to look at double glazing options. I will be interested to find out whether Magnetite is much cheaper than double glazing.
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5:47 pm
May 25, 2011
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Quetzal
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Amazing how many options there are now for different uses & budgets! I like the look of the Luxaflex Peter & would consider it if I didn't already have blinds. The expanded polystyrene option is a bit like a low end magnetite – similar principle – I must admit if I were still a student I'd keep doing what I've done for some unseen windows i.e., bubble wrap cut to size & stuck on the glass with a spray of water. It works! Glad to have Alec's recommendations for other suppliers – there's obviously more businesses coming into this sector over time as the demand grows. cheers all, useful exchange of knowledge here.
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10:47 am
May 26, 2011
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PeterC
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Quetzal said:
…I were still a student I'd keep doing what I've done for some unseen windows i.e., bubble wrap cut to size & stuck on the glass with a spray of water. It works! …
I still do the bubblewrap trick for one non-double glazed skylight. Cut out bubble wrap sitting on the other side of the plastic diffuser is completely invisible. Elsewhere, I have cheap 'clear comfort' that has been up for 15 years, DIY second pane of real glass, and expensive, german engineered Schuster windows that are very high quality.
Peter.
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4:37 pm
May 28, 2011
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Quetzal
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Well, I've just had my quote for windows in the loungeroom, kitchen & sliding door & window in bedroom for "magnetite". Two methods I've chosen, according to how much space I want taken up in the reveal – on the glass & setting up a separate frame in front of the existing frame. Of course, latter more expensive than former, but it all depends on what the set up is with the original windows. Perspex with PVC frames, metal backing where required for the magnetic strips. Same guy who did my window some 5 years ago, he even checked to see how that one was going, said business is really brisk these days. As far as I can tell from a casual glance, this option would have to be about 1/3 to 1/4 the cost of having the existing windows ripped out & replaced with new double glazed units if not less. Recall 4/5 colours for the profiles: beige, cream (primrose), white, black – but no grey like most existing aluminium windows (what a hideous colour – what is it with Australian house fittings all looking industrial & ugly?). Well, 5 weeks or so from now I should know whether it's worth the expense.
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10:48 pm
June 1, 2011
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marea
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Hi Quetzal, I've received a quote too and will soon be in possession of magnetite-fitted windows and sliding door/french door. I've decided on the separate frame in front of the existing frame to minimise transfer of cold/heat through the existing aluminium frames. For the sliding door, this means an additional track will be created for the magnetite door.
I'm hoping it will look okay as well as performing well. I've been assured that it won't be noticeable, and that many heritage listed places have had magnetite fitted to the windows.
The proof will be in the pudding – let's compare notes in a few weeks after they are installed!
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8:01 am
June 2, 2011
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Alec
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Every winter in the cold northeast in Massachusetts, my great aunt attaches a 'magnetite-like' acrylic window to her single pane windows (wood frames) on her home that was built in 1715. They are not noticeable from the outside, and very subtle indoors.
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11:29 am
June 5, 2011
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marea
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Thanks for that feedback Alec, it sounds like your great aunt may be attaching the magnetite windows directly on the glass, in view of the timber frames?
In my case, the existing frames are aluminium and so to ensure that cold and heat are not transmitted through the frames, I'm getting the magnetite attached to new frames that will sit on top of the existing frames.
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11:48 am
June 5, 2011
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Alec
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Hi,
the magnets are attached directly on the wood. Are you not allowed to the same for listed homes in Oz?
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